jozjozjoz.com :: brain barf... yum!

I think he's just overreacting to what feels like a threat from the Korean side of things. *shrug* He does sound like an ass at times (on helium), but I think a lot of that is due to the fact that he's been asked about it at least a dozen times already and he was still trying to concentrate on his individual events.

One thing is clear: The rules state pretty explicitly that the Koreans were supposed to lodge a protest DURING the event, as soon as the infraction occured, so that it could be corrected. (I believe this is pretty much to keep from dashing the hopes of athletes after the fact, which is something Paul is struggling with right now.) But they didn't. They waited until after the fact to bring it to anyone's attention. Their bad.

Also, I watched the entirety of that event, and the Korean in question actually got a better score than he should have (according to the commentators) on one of the other events. I don't know HOW much better they thought it was, but it gives me the impression that it kind of evened out.

In addition, Paul deserved that gold for no other reason than he came back and kicked righteous ass after a fall that would have sent most competitors straight into despair. His routines after that Vault were wonderful (the scores weren't high enough on Rings and Parallel bars, I thought). He earned that sucker on guts and perseverance.

In my opinion, the best outcome would be to award the Korean a second gold (they both worked hard for it, though I still think Paul deserved it more), but the committee is being a bunch of hard-asses about it. I can't fault them too much for it though seeing as how they are being hard-assed "equally" where the "rules" are concerned...so at least it's consistant. :/

Whatever the outcome, it's a damned shame.

PS, this was not gossip.

It is my understanding that the judges' error didn't come to light until the day after the competition.

How were the South Koreans supposed to complain DURING the event if they didn't know about it until afterwards?

And Paul Hamm may be annoyed to have to answer these questions while he is still competing in the individual events, but I bet it is a lot less annoying than what it must feel like to know you probably should have received the Gold medal, but that due to an admitted judging error, you got Bronze instead.

I think Paul Hamm should try a little harder to sound less like a "greedy American."

I don't think I could have said it any better myself. Hooray for ::jozjozjoz::!

I agree with Mike Celizic's column. It would make Hamm look like a true winner if he called the S. Korean athlete (sorry I can't remember his name) and put the medal around his neck.

The scoring system is so strange - and fluid. The thing is, Paul Hamm fell on his ass and had to be given a helping hand by one of the judges. Neither of the Koreans did that. That one incident, regardless of how well he did on any other event that night should place him behind those who didn't fall.

(Personally - tho I have never met the guy - he sounds like a sniveling loser. Take some testosterone man!)

i've seen and read quite a number of interviews with him and not once have i seen him be insistant about the gold. (i've seen and read more than just us coverage of the games.) it was just the opposite. he said he'd give it back if that's what has to happen. furthermore, a spokesman, last name was jae i think, for s. korea has said they have no wish to have paul hamm give back his gold. it's not his fault that the judges messed up. they just want their guy to get his gold too. i don't see his behavior as being "greedy" at all. a

it has been the rule for as long as i've been watching the olympics (and other international competitions) that if you have a dispute you should, at the very least go immediately to the judges table. that is how u dispute it during the event. south korea did not do that. if you will remember the winter olympics when tanya hardings' laces broke on her skates, she went straight to the judges. they allowed her to go again. the rules aren't made up as they go along. they're international and not the different from games to games or event to event. the fact that so. korea claims to have not known how to dispute wreaks. i'm no damn athlete nor a coach but i know to immediately go to the judges if you have an issue, not write a letter. why didn't they? they're not rubes lost in the big city.

yeah it sucks, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. if they make an exception here, what are they opening themselves up for? the 2 technical (i think) judges have been suspended, as well as, the head judge. the cas nor ioc are going to get involved. if the s. korean and american petition together to have duel golds, then they'll hopefully issue one.

this is just like last winter games when the judges screwed up with canada and another country. no one was getting their nose out of joint blaming the athletes that gold incorrectly. i love how that guy wrote an article saying paul should give it back. i wonder what he said 2 years ago. the ice skating governing body took a day or 2 but eventually issued the duel gold and re-did the ceremony. no harm. no foul.

personally, i think this just shows that the gymnastic governing body needs an overhaul and nice airing out to get rid of the stuffy asshats that can not fully admit they fucked up. issuing another gold and holding a duel ceremony would have taken much less time.

This Mike Celizic sounds a lot like Max Mercy in the movie "The Natural". More interested in preserving what he thinks is "purity in the sport" than in the actual sport itself. His comparing this to the speed skating event is a stretch at best. Yeah, maybe there were errors and maybe they were correctable at the time. Well, they weren't corrected in time. They have specific rules about these kinds of things in sport. There are no "do-overs", there are no "oops!" calls. Gymnastics, like all other sports, has a specific set of rules whether we like those rules or not. If the rules are not followed, then why have a competition at all?

So Paul is a little testy. I can safely say that at age 21 (his age) I said and did a lot of things that I am not proud of today. It's just that none of them had national media attention. I'd probably be a little testy if a medal that I had seemingly won fair and square suddenly was in question after the fact. I know Jim Thorpe had a lot to say when they took his medals in track and field months after he won them because he had played some semipro baseball.

The correct solution to this entire situation is for the South Korean Olympic body to go to the International Gymnastics Federation with a legitimate rules change. It happens in all sports. My favorite sport, basketball, has seen many rules changes due to an athlete doing something that hadn't been done before. Now it's time for gymnastics to have a rule change or two.

Update:

Tonight (or rather yesterday, I guess) the commentators and officials alike went over the Korean's parallel bar routine and found that the judges COULD have deducted TWO tenths of a point from that routine which, coupled with tenth that SHOULD have been awarded to him before would have put him even FURTHER behind, out of medal contention.

Now, what this article referenced here fails to take into account is that Paul Hamm has somehow become the focus of the blame here, when it is, in fact, the judges fault. How would you feel if you were in his shoes? You just finished the performance of your life, you come from behind to win the gold (and, after looking at the the additional errors in the Korean's favor above, it's safe to say that gold WAS deserved by Hamm), and now everyone is, basically, blaming you for winning.

I don't know about you, but if people kept sticking cameras in my face and telling me to give up a gold medal I won honestly, I don't think I'd say anything as nicely as he has.

NOW, fast forward to the other events of tonight (yesterday).

Alexei Nemov just finished one of the BEST high bar routines I have ever seen. The two people who went before him both got 9.787's for routines that were VERY good, but not as good as this one. The judges score? Somewhere along the lines of 9.65.

The audience booed for what seemed like close to half an hour while the "head official" huddled together with the people who scored his routine, and his score WAS revised....to 9.762.

Meanwhile Paul Hamm, who was up next, had to wait at the edge of the mat until the judges could get their shit together. ANY athlete will tell you that after warming up, you don't want to cool down again before your routine. And yet Paul Hamm was forced to do so because these officials are, obviously, blind. Now, he gets up there, and does the same routine as the night before, and does it nearly as flawlessly, and gets a 9.812 (pretty fair). But the remark made by one of the commentators says it all: "Oh no...now Paul Hamm may be in danger of having to defend ANOTHER Gold medal."

The next guy up scored a 9.812 as well, but was awarded the gold (Paul got silver) because of some tiebreaker rule I can't remember at the moment.

What it all boils down to is this: Paul Hamm SHOULD vigorously defend his right to have that gold medal, because he DID earn it (in light of the new facts brought forward). The officials involved, however, should be drug out into the street and shot. Now Pauls gold will be forever tarnished because people are blaming HIM for this whole mess instead of the dickheads behind the monitors who can't find their own asses with both hands AND a flashlight.

And Sharky, yes, he fell on his ass on the vault, and that MIGHT have put him out of the running, except he was damned near flawless on the rest of the apparatus while those in front of him in the standings (including the Korean, Tae Young Yang) kept making errors that kept adding up. That's why it's called the All-Around. You're judged on your overall performance, it's not "one ass-bump and you're out".

EDIT to the above: The reason they could have deducted 2 tenths from Yang's routine was because he did 4 hold elements when only 3 are allowed...the judges didn't catch/notice it (surprise surprise) and so he kept the 2 tenths.

I don't blame Paul Hamm for being upset and angry, and to his credit, he's been much more palatable with each passing day.

But the first day the controversy came up, he was speaking as if it was horrific that anyone even questioned his Gold.

I don't think Paul Hamm should GIVE UP his Gold, but I don't think he should be upset if they award a second gold to Tae Young Yang, either.

Yah, he was a little Smeagol at first about it, but he's since chilled. Like I said, there's been a lot of pressure put on him.

He's cool with the 2nd gold idea, too, according to the most recent interviews (and can't they just leave him alone now? lol)

wow, people still up!

we're watching it right now (the booing of nemov's score) (thanks TiVo!) and i can't help but feel back for both alexei and paul. at least alexei seems somewhat bouy'd by the crowd supporting him. paul seems quite stressed and nervous, but not impatient or upset.

Umm, since when was the Olympics about sportsmanship? Not in the last 40 years. It's all about ego and competition, which (it sounds like) Mr Hamm embodies perfectly. I think he should stop being an ass of a lawyer and give up sport entirely. He'd be more useful as a doorstop.

Mike Celizic and so do you dink bastards

I'm writing to this site to correct many of the misconception about the controversial gold medal given to Paul Hamm. He completely deserves it and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. Most people just hear the simple side of the story: there was a judging error and the South Korean should have received and additional tenth to is score. But that's not all there is to the story. That's just the South Koreans being sore losers and claiming that they were treated unjustly. But they can't choose judging error that they don't like and try to change them after the competition. There were other error that night and if these errors were corrected he would have received a lower score. On his parallel bars routine, there was a mandatory 2-tenth deduction that the judges didn't take. Young had too many holds in his routine (the limit is three, and he had more), and that was supposed to result in an automatic deduction. But the judges screwed up, again. So if Young were to get his real score, he wouldn't have even got a medal. Therefore, he should shut up and be happy that he medaled and damn glad that he beat some of the best gymnasts in the world. Let's face it: His performance was mediocre and he was put on that stand by other people's mistakes.

And Paul Hamm throughout this has been more patient that most people would have been. People hear one side of the story, make judgments, then write vicious articles criticizing him for something that was not his fault. Mike Celizic's article, criticizing Hamm really pissed me off and if I could ever get his email I would love to tell him what a stupid asshole he is. Paul Hamm knows the whole story and knows that he deserves his gold and was truly the champion. He knows that you can't change rules after a competition is over, and that reviewing tapes to determine if a scoring error was made is absolutely against the rules. He knows that the South Korean's should have made a protest before the beginning of the next rotation. And yet he has people telling him every day that he sounds stuck up and arrogant, when he really has done nothing wrong. Two times during the Olympics, he was put in a position where he had to defend scores that were giving to him. That was wrong and no critic can say that it was his fault for errors out of his control. He put on a hell of a performance and no one can deny that.