Comments on: Push to achieve tied to suicide in Asian-American women http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/ brain barf... yum! Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:06:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Deltus http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41721 Deltus Fri, 18 May 2007 19:36:06 +0000 http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41721 Well, there's two ways to get someone to do something: the carrot and the stick. If you're encouraging achievement in your kids with the carrot, go wild. Too often (and I've noticed this when I was in school, not just with asian kids but all types) the children are driven to achieve because that's the ONLY time their parents give them any positive attention. It's not about seeking praise, it's about seeking any good interaction at all. And that is one hell of a stick to try to overcome. That's not to say that there aren't other reasons one would commit suicide. Of cours there are. But just because something is ingrained into the fabric of a particular culture, doesn't mean that thing isn't, in whole or in part, responsible for what it sows. Whenever someone commits suicide, we've all failed. If your value system cannot encompass that, it's time to change your value system. Easy to say, hard to do, but that doesn't make it any less the truth. Well, there’s two ways to get someone to do something: the carrot and the stick. If you’re encouraging achievement in your kids with the carrot, go wild. Too often (and I’ve noticed this when I was in school, not just with asian kids but all types) the children are driven to achieve because that’s the ONLY time their parents give them any positive attention. It’s not about seeking praise, it’s about seeking any good interaction at all. And that is one hell of a stick to try to overcome.

That’s not to say that there aren’t other reasons one would commit suicide. Of cours there are. But just because something is ingrained into the fabric of a particular culture, doesn’t mean that thing isn’t, in whole or in part, responsible for what it sows. Whenever someone commits suicide, we’ve all failed. If your value system cannot encompass that, it’s time to change your value system. Easy to say, hard to do, but that doesn’t make it any less the truth.

]]> By: stkyrice http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41644 stkyrice Fri, 18 May 2007 06:30:40 +0000 http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41644 I agree with Joz. It's way too easy to blame "society" when what's really needed is parents to maintain good communication with their children, and to help their children develop the social skills to talk to friends and other people to deal with their problems. Too often, the media will pin the cause on something identifiable and easily explained, like "the model minority push". It also lumps Asian Americans into one big group, where the more established Asian American groups, like Chinese, Filipino, Korean, are able to have the community support to do this so called "pushing", while other groups are still dealing with long histories of war and poverty and are just barely scraping by (like many immigrants from Afghanistan and Southeast Asia) and for whom this is completely irrelevant. There are a lot of other issues that are always pushed under the table when Asians commit suicide, like mental illness, post-traumatic stress disorder among Southeast Asian immigrants (like the Mien, Hmong, etc) and the incredibly staggering rates of domestic violence and other forms of abuse (emotional, physical, sexual, etc.) that are inflicted upon Asian American kids. When I was doing research on topics for my dissertation when I was still in grad school, the rates of Asian American men experiencing some form of abuse as boys was at least 8 out of 10, if not higher, and the rates were just slightly lower for women. These are issues that the Asian American community needs to confront. I agree with Joz. It’s way too easy to blame “society” when what’s really needed is parents to maintain good communication with their children, and to help their children develop the social skills to talk to friends and other people to deal with their problems. Too often, the media will pin the cause on something identifiable and easily explained, like “the model minority push”. It also lumps Asian Americans into one big group, where the more established Asian American groups, like Chinese, Filipino, Korean, are able to have the community support to do this so called “pushing”, while other groups are still dealing with long histories of war and poverty and are just barely scraping by (like many immigrants from Afghanistan and Southeast Asia) and for whom this is completely irrelevant.

There are a lot of other issues that are always pushed under the table when Asians commit suicide, like mental illness, post-traumatic stress disorder among Southeast Asian immigrants (like the Mien, Hmong, etc) and the incredibly staggering rates of domestic violence and other forms of abuse (emotional, physical, sexual, etc.) that are inflicted upon Asian American kids. When I was doing research on topics for my dissertation when I was still in grad school, the rates of Asian American men experiencing some form of abuse as boys was at least 8 out of 10, if not higher, and the rates were just slightly lower for women. These are issues that the Asian American community needs to confront.

]]> By: jozjozjoz http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41591 jozjozjoz Thu, 17 May 2007 19:06:06 +0000 http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41591 Deltus, re: "they need to not be so intense with the achievement pushing on their children." This is part of the values and culture of many Asian Americans, that's not something that people are just going to "decide to do." It would be a fundmental shift in their value systems. Very difficult but also it reflects the point I was making. The focus on "achievement pushing" totally ignores other reasons why someone might commit suicide. Why do people from other cultures/backgrounds commit suicide? Is "achievement pushing" making it worse for Asians? Personally, and I know people will disagree with this, I think that people (in general) should push their kids harder; we should expect more from kids and they will rise to the challenge. I don't think it solves anything to say "parents shouldn't push so hard" because lots of Asian/Asian American parents push and most kids don't kill themselves over it. What's important is that if parents are going to push, that they're sensitive to how their child is handling it and to lay off <i>if they might be going too far</i>. I don't think "laying off" for its own sake is healthy, either. Deltus, re: “they need to not be so intense with the achievement pushing on their children.”

This is part of the values and culture of many Asian Americans, that’s not something that people are just going to “decide to do.” It would be a fundmental shift in their value systems. Very difficult but also it reflects the point I was making. The focus on “achievement pushing” totally ignores other reasons why someone might commit suicide. Why do people from other cultures/backgrounds commit suicide? Is “achievement pushing” making it worse for Asians?

Personally, and I know people will disagree with this, I think that people (in general) should push their kids harder; we should expect more from kids and they will rise to the challenge. I don’t think it solves anything to say “parents shouldn’t push so hard” because lots of Asian/Asian American parents push and most kids don’t kill themselves over it. What’s important is that if parents are going to push, that they’re sensitive to how their child is handling it and to lay off if they might be going too far. I don’t think “laying off” for its own sake is healthy, either.

]]> By: Deltus http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41590 Deltus Thu, 17 May 2007 18:52:18 +0000 http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41590 Very sad thing. But it highlights, I think, some changes that must happen to the Asian American community. First, they need to not be so intense with the achievement pushing on their children. And, the stigma of mental illness (or, as stkyrice alluded to, the complete disbelief in it) must be addressed as well. Very sad thing. But it highlights, I think, some changes that must happen to the Asian American community. First, they need to not be so intense with the achievement pushing on their children. And, the stigma of mental illness (or, as stkyrice alluded to, the complete disbelief in it) must be addressed as well.

]]> By: jozjozjoz http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41582 jozjozjoz Thu, 17 May 2007 17:26:57 +0000 http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41582 The article says that Eliza's sister died in 1990, pre e-mail for the consumer market days. The article says that Eliza’s sister died in 1990, pre e-mail for the consumer market days.

]]> By: Superha http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41525 Superha Thu, 17 May 2007 09:33:38 +0000 http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41525 why didn't eliza send her sister and e-mail instead of a letter? i know, that's not the point. it's a very sad phenomenon. i'm definitely not going to pressure my daughter or son when they get older. why didn’t eliza send her sister and e-mail instead of a letter?
i know, that’s not the point. it’s a very sad phenomenon. i’m definitely not going to pressure my daughter or son when they get older.

]]> By: stkyrice http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41481 stkyrice Wed, 16 May 2007 23:07:02 +0000 http://www.jozjozjoz.com/2007/05/16/push-to-achieve-tied-to-suicide-in-asian-american-women/#comment-41481 One of the things that's a big problem in the Asian Am community is the incredible amount of stigma behind mental illness, and the inability for many Asian Americans (particularly immigrants) to talk about it, seek treatment for it, and to complete the treatment. Because these symptoms aren't really manifested by physical findings (unless they can will their bodies to do so--which does happen), many Asian Americans believe that it doesn't exist and won't seek the treatment for it. There apparently is a huge stigma for Asian Americans to seek therapy for their issues, yet many of the well adjusted Asians I know openly admit to using therapy to deal with their problems (myself included). It also doesn't help that there aren't a lot of ways that are culturally respectful for Asian Americans, which turns many off to seeking help. Eliza Noh is a kickass woman, btw. I met her when we were both grad students and I was in one of her panels for an Association of Asian American Studies conference here in SF on Asian Ams and mental health, and she does great work. One of the things that’s a big problem in the Asian Am community is the incredible amount of stigma behind mental illness, and the inability for many Asian Americans (particularly immigrants) to talk about it, seek treatment for it, and to complete the treatment. Because these symptoms aren’t really manifested by physical findings (unless they can will their bodies to do so–which does happen), many Asian Americans believe that it doesn’t exist and won’t seek the treatment for it. There apparently is a huge stigma for Asian Americans to seek therapy for their issues, yet many of the well adjusted Asians I know openly admit to using therapy to deal with their problems (myself included). It also doesn’t help that there aren’t a lot of ways that are culturally respectful for Asian Americans, which turns many off to seeking help.

Eliza Noh is a kickass woman, btw. I met her when we were both grad students and I was in one of her panels for an Association of Asian American Studies conference here in SF on Asian Ams and mental health, and she does great work.

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